METALLICA – (Interview) James Hetfield Chats With So What! #metallica #jameshetfield

BY STEFFAN CHIRAZI

As I prepare to speak with James Hetfield a week after the Pandemica drive-in concert film recording in Sonoma, CA, it would be a lie to say I am not a little nervous. This is my friend, someone I’ve known for 36 years, yet these have been some very testing months for mankind, including Metallica, and specifically James. There is much to ask, yet much which does not need asking. I am certainly not interested in unwittingly venturing into the latter, yet my style of interviewing has always been to just “chat” around a group of topics. No worries: if 36 years gives you anything, it’s trust and comfort. Which is how James and I came to discuss all manner of things, most prominently what his life is today and where he stands on Metallica. It was, indeed, a great “chat” …and as you’ll see, James Hetfield is doing okay today.

Steffan Chirazi: Let’s talk a little bit about COVID-era life. I mean first of all, obviously in September, you took time out. That was one thing, but then, suddenly nature decided to take a time out on all of us. So, I’m intrigued and interested to know how the COVID-era life has been for you. What you’ve been up to and what it’s left you thinking.

James Hetfield: Right. Well, COVID is certainly not welcomed. A pandemic is not welcomed. People are hurting. People are dying. There’s lots of people struggling, really, really struggling with funds, wherever they’re living, they can’t afford things anymore. Lives are changing drastically. So I don’t mean to sound cold about it, but for me personally, it’s been really helpful to slow down, stop the work, stop the circus of what’s going on with touring and band and all of that stuff, family struggles as well. So it’s really good to have time to just be. To just be. Not have to have an agenda, but just to chill, to soak up life on life’s terms, to plug into my community here in Colorado. That’s definitely one thing that has been difficult for me to have [in the past] because of coming and going every few weeks, not really being able to plug into any commitments or say, “Hey, let’s do this once a week,” or get together and barbecue, have a cigar pit or whatever, those weekly things that people get to do. I was not able to do those and now I am. I’ve built a really cool community of friends, true, unconditionally loving friends, and I would not have had that if I didn’t have this time.

SC: Gotcha. So you mean it’s been nice to be able to establish a community of “friends of James” as opposed to just having the community of “James on tour, James working.” It’s a different community to the one you’ve been in most of your life, is that kind of what you mean?

JH: I do mean that, and you know, the home. When I’d come home and you know, I’d get a couple weeks at home, and Francesca, my wife, has got things planned out: “Here’s the friends we’re hanging with,” and I’d just kinda jump right into that. It’d take a week to even say “hi,” to even want to come off the couch and say “hi.” I’m noticing a lot more since I’ve been away from it and stepped back, big picture-wise, those transitions between road and home have been more difficult than I really had at first imagined. I guess I’ve only been doing it for 40 years, but [I’m] just recognizing it now, seeing how difficult it is, and being okay with it. Because I felt so guilty that I only had two weeks at home and you have to just plug right in or else, and I would, you know, kinda go off the rails. So, yeah, just a different type of self-care now.

SC: So it’s like resetting a metronome that works for you, finding a new rhythm to life and finding a new rhythm to how to make it all work.

JH: Yeah, and to recognize that it’s okay that I’m, say, feeling depressed, and get depressed. You get depressed after tours. Or get anxious before a tour starts.

SC: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

JH: I’m just noticing that a lot more. I’m a little more sensitive than I want to admit, I suppose.

SC: That’s actually always one of the great misnomers of anyone in performance, especially your area of performance because you’re a front man. Everyone assumes that you walk around with your chest puffed out, but there’s usually a significant amount of pressure and insecurity. I think it always surprises people. I mean, you can say that to me, and I know, but I still think people will be blown away by that. It’s like yes, you’re human as well.

JH: [chuckling] Yeah, I’m sorry to burst your bubble but yeah, I’m not one of The Avengers or whatever, you know. I don’t have superpowers.

SC: There is another angle to explore, and we’re going into sort of the second topic here, which is music. It has been your life. It is an intrinsic part of your life. When you come together to do stuff with the other three again (like the Pandemica event), is it something that you accept as fundamentally a part of your expression as a person? Is this a part of who you are? Is this “chemistry” a part of the overall equation, or was there a little bit of, “Crikey, I’m a little scared to get back with these guys right now, I’m in a comfortable spot”?

JH: It’s a good question, and I did experience both. Here in Colorado, [having] been here for months and months, you know, in your little cocoon, building your community and buddies and all the stuff that we love doing outside… and you know, there’s been a lot less quarantine here in the mountains than most cities, which I’m really grateful for. And [then] sitting there doing our weekly Zoom call with the band, Lars talking about being in his home in San Francisco and he’s, you know, not leaving. He’s getting things delivered, and how he hasn’t been in a grocery store in four or five months. That just blows my mind. I’m really fortunate here. I’ve got four or five buddies to come over, barbecue, we go shooting, we go camping, we go fishing, whatever. There’s grocery stores, the Home Depot, all the normal stuff. Very grateful for that.

But getting back into work, I’ve been playing, writing kind of nonstop, and trying to slow down and trying to have the other guys present some stuff that they would like to play in Metallica. So getting back together with the guys was anxiety ridden. I mean, it really was. Getting on a plane, traveling. And then what we really had to do was make the least comfortable person comfortable with all of this COVID and testing and whatnot. So double masks, face shields, rain slickers, hazmat suits, you know. Walk into a, whatever the little smoking things that they had, little fogger to fog your backpacks, and there was every precaution taken that was available. Some people just feel a little more freaked out by this, feel safer with a different cautionary level. So I think we did a great job in that department. But getting back and playing was just scary. After almost a year, you get up there and, “Wow, I can’t play as quick as I used to, I can’t this or…” And it’s all the same stuff that’s happened over the years, where we have nightmares before getting back together, and then as soon as we play, everything’s fine. It’s just that messed up creative mind that’s the blessing and curse, you know?

SC: Yeah, that’s very well put. I know that you are very acquiescent to the concept of higher power again, especially at this point. I have to ask you, do you consider your writing and your music a higher power that tells you, “Hey, I’m here, you can’t deny me?” Is that part of what gets you through these moments of maybe being scared to get back for the first time in ages? Is there any truth in that statement?

JH: Yeah, I would say that is a good overview. For me, I’m again, just a vessel. That [writing and music] is a purpose for me. That is what my higher power gave me to do, and I need to do that as a service to myself and to my fellow brothers and sisters. And if I don’t do that, if I’m not doing that, I definitely get depressed. I get a feeling of uselessness or, you know, I got nothing. Which is untrue, but there’s part of the worldly man that wants to feel purposeful, especially as a human, that we’re creating, we’re achieving, we’re all of that kind of material side of things that tends to satisfy us for a little bit. That is certainly not the end goal, but the service part. Writing, creating, even having work for the crew who have been struggling. When we’re not out working, they’re not out working. Usually it would be that if we’re not working, then they could go work for someone else for a little while, but no one’s able to work and everyone is struggling. So any little bit like this, the drive-in thing, was very, very welcome and a lot of gratitude was expressed from the crew.

SC: Yeah, it felt that way to me as well. I mean, with things having been quieter on the band front, I certainly turned to focus a little more on some of the All Within My Hands partner charities which was really good, to be able to spotlight some of those great people and some of the journeys they’ve had, which are pretty incredible actually. Everyone has a story to tell, it’s just up to us to listen. And then this whole Pandemica event, for me, just being a part of everything for a few days, it was like suddenly everything felt a little better. It was a normalizer in a way. It was a sign that, all right everything is sort of messed up everywhere, but there might be a light at the end of this. And just understanding that we are all moving forward.

JH: Yeah, there’s lots [to be said]… I love what you said about everyone having a story and it’s just up to others to listen and to learn, or to identify with; there are plenty of hardships and plenty of struggles. I am not alone in my struggle mentally. I am extremely fortunate to be where I am as far as comfort level, but that has nothing to do with my insides, you know? I can’t watch the news, it makes me so angry and sad to see things that are going on and people taking advantage of certain things and… oh, it’s so frustrating! And then I just realize that, you know, it’s out of my control, man. Really it is, and the only thing I control is how I contribute or not contribute to it.

SC: Oh, that’s a great truth. I think a lot of people will be somewhat relieved that you feel in service to keep speaking through music. I think for a lot of people, it’s an extremely helpful thing.

JH: Yeah, there’s absolutely no doubt that I will absolutely continue ’til my last breath. And creating again in the garage, with the welding, I made a few things and then did a couple of those little side tables and thought, “Hey, how can I help?” And I was frickin blown away at the response from those things and the way they did the lottery where it wasn’t just an auction where the most money wins it. You bought tickets and everyone had a chance. It was so cool, and the fact that it raised so much money to help the All Within My Hands. I especially wanted it to go to the trade schools, and the people that are doing the welding and stuff, and by me goofing around in the garage and trying to figure out things for myself, I was able to help and maybe figure out things for someone else. So a really good thing.

SC: My dear friend, I’m not be prepared to let you away with “goofing around in the garage” at this point. I think you’ve known the right end of a TIG welder for a long time now, you’re pretty useful with that thing.

I’m gonna deviate a bit now. I have to ask, given that the last set of lyrics that you wrote for an album in 2016 started with the song “Hardwired,” can we possibly contemplate what you might be writing for any future record lyrically?

JH: [chuckles] Yeah. I am not a prophet. I am not a soothsayer or whatever, there’s no witchery happening. That’s just what I felt. Yeah, as far as lyrics go for the next, who knows, man. I definitely need to write something a lot more happy and positive, so hopefully that will happen.

SC: Cool… let’s get back to the parking lot for a minute, and the Pandemica event itself. Can you speak a little bit about the performance? Do you think it was maybe, in retrospect, the safest way for you to re-enter a live gig with the band, given that there was no crowd? Because at one point I thought there’s no crowd, how are they gonna react?

JH: Well, first of all, it was odd that we were playing together after a year. That was odd already. And then being outside playing on gravel at a winery, I wouldn’t have guessed that that was gonna be on our list of things to do. And just some lights and the sunset as our backdrop, it was beautiful, I must say. But it was difficult. It really was. It was… I would say less of a gig and more of a rehearsal, is what it felt like. It felt loose. We were close, we were tight with each other, and most of the stages that we’d been on [recently] had been massive, 80 feet wide and all of that. This was nice and tight, and just the crew was there, so it was pretty much like a rehearsal. There was a little anxiety about, “What am I gonna say between these songs? Am I talking to the drive-in theater people? What am I doing? All right, let’s just get real with it. It is what it is. We’re not hiding the fact that there’s no such thing as COVID, there’s no live shows. Address that, talk about it, and just really talk about how much I missed playing, how much we’ve missed playing together.”

I think one thing that came out of the experience was I rely a lot on the audience for moral support, for energy, for love, all of that. After playing five or six songs, I was pretty drained. And I’m usually able to plug into the audience and they carry me through.

SC: Oh, interesting, the “battery,” so to speak. The power exchange we’ve talked about before. It’s interesting because, as I was watching, I actually thought you all got more comfortable three or four songs in and it felt like you hit a real pocket of energy and feeling, that natural chemistry. Do you think now you’ve had this physical reunion with everyone, albeit no hand shaking and all the COVID-19 stuff, but just being in the physical presence that the electricity has released a bit of pressure from anything you do in the future?

JH: Well, that reminds me of the phrase, “you don’t know what you got ’til it’s gone,” you know? Where certainly, “Okay, gosh, I’m tired of touring,” and now I really want to get out and do some shows. Not tour like we were, crazily, but seeing familiar faces, the family, the rehearsal, the creative process, HQ itself, just everyone that works there. God, I just missed it so much. And yeah, it’s my choice to live away from it, but with the whole distancing and all of that… gosh. You know, I always really prided myself on – or had a romantic notion of – the lone wolf; that’s how I am, and that’s how I want to be. But I miss people. And as much as I say I don’t, I do.

SC: Let’s reflect on the S&M2 shows now. You’re glad you did them I’m sure?

JH: Oh, absolutely. I’m so glad we did that. It was a major undertaking and also, how many people we employed from that one gig was unbelievable. Our band grew to what, 120-something? And all the crew and all the people at the new venue. It was really cool to have that many people a part of this, and then creating something that was similar yet very different from [the original] S&M [shows]. We felt so much more comfortable this time. We felt a lot more like we were heard, we were able to contribute. We were less fearful, I would say, as I think before it was such a new world for us, we didn’t want to kinda get in the way. This time we really wanted to get in the way and make some different kinda history. So things like the bass solo, a couple songs that we might not have played before, doing a cover song from another composer, and singing a song with just the symphony. Stuff like that we would never have done the first time, we were just too, too fearful.

SC: Yeah. As you know, it’s in my nature to analyze things and performances, especially when there’s a lot of emotion in the air. I felt that there were a couple of the performances, particularly on your end, that felt like you were investing in them in a way that I hadn’t quite seen before maybe. I thought particularly with “All Within My Hands,” there was a unique electricity, and also “The Outlaw Torn,” those two in particular really struck me as like, “Wow, he’s finding a new level or relationship with these lyrics.” Is that fair to say? Did any of those performances bring you a new relationship with those words?

JH: You know, every chapter in life, they have a new meaning, or a deeper meaning, or they change meanings. Usually in a deeper way, but yeah, for sure “All Within My Hands” is, and ironically you said it, it was just electric, but it was acoustic, and I love playing that song. There’s something about it. It was grabbing a song from St. Anger and completely doing the opposite with it, but it’s almost more powerful this way. I love it and you know, we got to do it on The Howard Stern Show again, and that version comes effortlessly for some reason. It’s simple and it’s deep. I love it. “The Outlaw Torn” obviously is friggin stretched out, heavy, epic, and yeah, it definitely tells a story of waiting for life to happen. And you know, it’s happening in all the other ways you don’t want it to, and at the end of the day that’s what you get, so make the best of it. That’s kinda what we’re going through right now, you know? It’s so strange and there’s obviously so much fear out there, you can see it in some of the footage of people just going berserk, you know? There’s a lot of fear that people aren’t safe, that they aren’t gonna get what they need. They’ve been cooped up, and mental health is a major, major issue right now.

SC: Agreed! We wandered down a path there, so back to S&M2. So you have good memories then. It was an endeavor that you enjoyed?

JH: Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, I was not in the best mindset, not in the best shape of my life mentally, physically, spiritually, but I had no clue that I was in that bad a shape. And I was just continuing life, living in a real alternate world of addiction, and then coming out of it, coming back and forth into it, and lying. Lying to myself and everyone around me. But when I look at it, I tend to think, “Oh, man, you’re in a world of hurt right there,” but the fact is that we pulled it off and we did it and it’s in the bag, it’s part of history. I’m glad, glad we did it.

SC: Okay, let’s talk a little bit about Greg Fidelman for a minute, because I think increasingly one of the things I’ve noticed is that in this COVID-era, you know, Greg’s importance to what you guys are all doing seems to grow exponentially to the point where he’s almost a fifth member of your creative team. Is that fair to say?

JH: I would say yes, he… now you made it scary. You know? Bob Rock was the fifth member, or somebody else was the fifth… Greg is very, very helpful for us. He’s good at what he does. He still works for other people, he does lots of other stuff, but he knows us well. We know him well. He knows our sound well. We know what we’re gonna get from him, we’re gonna trust- we’re able to trust fall into him, and if that’s a fifth member, then okay.

SC: Yeah, got it, and I can leave “fifth member” or whatever out of the equation of it all.

JH: No, he is essential and if we need something done sonically, Greg’s there. He’s reliable and he’s there and he’s excellent at what he does. So you know, from mixing a hundred-piece orchestra with a heavy metal band to putting together a layered COVID Zoom song, he’s there and he’s willing to learn and he’s good at it. We’re grateful to have him.

SC: Good. All right, I’ll bring us to a wrap point here. It sounds to me like of all the journeys you’ve found yourself on over the years, and there have been a few, this one is the most sure-footed yet? Do you feel more comfortable with each foot going forward now than you have ever before?

JH: Well, as far as my life and growth and band life, all together I’d say yes. The older we get, we learn more. Whether I want to learn any more about myself that I don’t know. But I am learning about how much I’m a regular human being, I’m learning that more and more, and yeah, I get to be in a big, popular band, but everyone has their own celebrity in their life, and it’s all just relative to what’s around you. Ours is highly elevated, and I’m realizing a lot more that I have not cared for myself very well. Growing up in a – I don’t know – a family that might not, as far as medically, have taken care of themselves, to actually caring for myself in more than just an “eat food and shower” way. Asking for what you need, asking if you can help, connecting to the world in different ways. I mean we can get super deep, super quick, but yes, [I have] a lot more knowledge about myself and my relationship with the world.

SC: And to reiterate, you’re “feeling” these brothers in the sense that you’re always gonna be connected? However much time you spend away from each other, when you get together, there’s a reason for it. Is that what it feels like?

JH: Yeah. I would say that. We are brothers on this journey in life, and Metallica definitely happens because of us getting together, you know? We’re gonna continue to stay connected and write music. For me there’s been two sides of the coin in the band. There’s been, “you’re on the road” or “you’re writing.” And so [right now] we can’t be on the road, I guess we’re writing. It’s the easy choice of the fork in the road, so that’s what we’re doing. I’m writing, they’re writing. At some point we’ll get together. I know Greg has definitely fiddled around – heh heh – with the Zoom connecting. We did this song for the upcoming Disney movie over Zoom, and it was very cool. So again, like Napster or whatever else it is, the internet, people start freaking out about it. You know, COVID, no live shows. Okay. You adapt and it’s important to be of service with our music, so let’s do what we can out there, and we’re adapting.

SC: I mean as much as anything, and this has surely always been one of the tenets of this band, but it’s also in service to itself and it has to be important to the four of you as well, right?

JH: Oh, absolutely! It’s like breathing, for sure. And the fact that we are all able to do this together – and get to another level – is part of it. And I realize more and more that this is a gift. This is a gift we’ve been handed, and we need to care for it.